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Alleged Nanking Massacre? Name：caitianlong Date：2010/07/19(Mon) 01:51 No.124

Please... To contest a well-documented and established historical event in the name of pride is simply too much for me to let go. With countless eye witness testimonies, pictures of the events, and even intact remnants still in Nanjing, to question the atrocity that happened there and deny it is just too much. Japan is a nation of genius and brilliance, it should not result to this shameful and dishonorable denial.

whitelotus ＞ Again, none of those so-called eyewitness accounts and testimonies has been investigated and verified yet. (7/22-12:04) No.130

DB's very bad info biased! Name：Aki Date：2010/03/06(Sat) 21:49 No.115

There were no massacre for the civilians at all in Nanking in that time period, please read in 166 pages
report in engilish prepared by the Nanking safety zone
committee leaded by Rabe and westners. Nanking massacre
was made up by Timperley before the Nanking battle.
The war battles were had 20,000 to 50,000 death of both
China and Japanese armys, however, no massace for the civilians was made. 166 pages of the report shows that
facts.

caitianlong ＞ No massacre of civillians was perpetrated? Please check up on your facts... (7/19-01:53) No.125
whitelotus ＞ caitianlong, why don't you check up the facts by yourself? (7/22-12:03) No.129

don't focus on the number Name：tom Date：2010/01/12(Tue) 23:43 No.98

just focus on what your ancesters did on that massacre.

they raped pregnant women, killed babes and their parents and finally burned their houses.

you offsprings called yourself human beings?

doubtful!

whitelotus ＞ OK. Tell me what happened to those pregnant women who, according to you, were supposed to be raped by the Japanese soldiers? Where are the bodies? Killing people...., burning houses....., those were what the bandits in China had done in centuries. (1/14-17:15) No.101
jimmy ＞ just because things of a similar nature may have occurred before does not give the japanese soldiers the right to kill and rape innocent civilians (2/7-16:11) No.104
whitelotus ＞ There is no proof to prove the Japaense soldiers killed and/or raped innocent civillians. (2/9-09:20) No.109
caitianlong ＞ As for proof, there are countless! Pictures even. Please check them up, a simple search engine type up will yield millions of results. If you proceed there validity, refer to scholarly texts even, you'll be surprised to find more. (7/19-01:55) No.126
fenetic ＞ whitelotus, are you retarded? if you even bothered to look for proof you will see that theres countless of photographs, documentations etc.
STOP LIVING IN DENIAL JAPAN! (7/21-06:19) No.127
whitelotus ＞ caitanlong and fenetic, has any ofthose so-called photographs and documentations ever been verified and proven as first-hand documentations? For example, if you want to bring some photos as evidences, you have to provide the info regarding who took them, where, when, and under what kind of circumstances they were taken. If those info are not provided, photos are just photos, nothing else. (7/22-12:02) No.128

feel sorry for long absence Name：Aki Date：2009/06/12(Fri) 02:40 No.79

I have been in physical problems, now OK so I am very pleased to come back here, many thanks for tokyo bystander and aiz for your so good comments for the naive and anti-Japan parties/persons.

I have been digging the sense of anti-Japanese sources and have been finding that comes from PRC and Korea as
it's accord from the US and Europeans and that they are
intending to weaken the historican truth in Asia.

Kind regards, aki

fuck you ＞ Japan == faggots!! (4/26-01:30) No.116
whitelotus ＞ The Chinese are the yellow uncle Toms who have no guts to accuse the Western nations which did occupy various parts of China. (5/6-14:03) No.123

LOL Name：Noah Date：2010/04/30(Fri) 11:40 No.119

Damn Japs who kept denying this ............

-Nanking massacre
-Unit 731
-Comfort Women
-Death march
-And now whale hunting, in the name of scientific research. WHy don`t simply admit they infact hunt whale for food ?

Those who support this movie is live in denial .......... Simply denying their dark past. WHy don`t they learn from those Germans. Those Germans acknowledge their sins during WW2 and apologize because of their brutal act .........

Oh yeah I`m not American myself but dropping A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the best US desicion they ever made.

If Japan won`t surrender and many more Japnese civilians will perish because of their leader stupidity .............

whitelotus ＞ Learning from German? Learning what? You mean only apologizing to the Jews and Polish, and not doing anything for the former colonies they had in Africa and Pacific? Remember, Mao Tse Tung and his Communist Party were the worst of worst; killed way more than Hiter and Stalin combined. (5/6-14:02) No.122

japan scum Name：japan Date：2010/04/26(Mon) 01:31 No.117

small dicks in japan cannot rape! therefore rape cannot happens.

very true statement ＞ hahaha... this is so true! must be true! this film must be correct then!! (4/26-01:34) No.118
edgerf ＞ small dicks in japanese proven cannot rape!!!!! (5/1-01:11) No.120
whitelotus ＞ Then, tell me how come Japan has its 100 million population? (5/6-13:59) No.121

i do hate uncle sam!! Name：Aki Date：2010/03/06(Sat) 21:35 No.114

you should lean and study about the historical facts rather than before the very emotional and naive saying.
maybe, if you have a least chance got atomic bomb in NY
or LA, how and what you would feel and say. uncle tom seems having the typical racial deiscrimination being caused by the educational matter, it still has been remaining in the USA and westerners, this matters would originally come from the new testiment.
from

We Are The World Name：DB Date：2010/02/28(Sun) 14:12 No.112

Let's assume, for a second, that Japanese soldiers did NOT kill or rape any innocent civilians, did NOT conduct inhumane tests on civilians, etc.

What do you propose is the main reason for China and South Korea's animosity against Japan?

Is it jealousy of Japan? Is it diplomatic revenge for being invaded?

When we start nit-picking for "proof", or if people start suggesting,"you have no proof that it was 300,000 instead of 30,000" -- then yes, no one can prove the EXACT number. However, the Japanese cannot DISPROVE it either.

Of course, conventional debating suggests that the "burden of proof" is on the person that makes the claim.

Proof in the form of John Rabe, first-hand accounts from survivors, etc. are, as the Japanese say, "not enough", "unfounded" or "inconsistent".

There will be supporters and attackers for both sides. It is a never-ending argument.

You either believe the first-hand accounts, or you don't.

Regardless of the belief, I believe everyone in the world just needs to drop the bigotry and hate, regardless of whether Japan performed the atrocities or not.

How long does a country need to pay for the sins of their fathers?

whitelotus ＞ =>Is it jealousy of Japan? Is it diplomatic revenge for being invaded?

Both China and South Korea have still blindly been following the age-old Sino-centrick hierarchy,
which placed China as the center of the universe, and Korea the second.
Virtually every Asian nation used to be the tributary states of China in ancient time.

When Japan became the first one to broke off with China in the 7th century, others soon followed the path,
of course, partly due to the Western colonization. But Korea had been loyal to China until the very end of
the 19th century.

While Japan has been the leading nation of Asia with much to offer, Korea has still been struggling to
promote their nation due to the almost 1,000 year history of being the faithful tributary state of China.

Both China and Korea cannot stand Japan, which according to the Sino-centric universe, is supposed to be inferior
to them, has been more successful and command international respects.

In case you haven't studied in school, it was the Western nations such as Britain, which first invaded and occupied
China. Britain, along with France, Germany, others occupied certain parts of China as their territories, but do you
know why has no Chinese ever been loud against them for the occupations? Because the Chinese in general are scared to
speak up against the caucasians. They and other Asians have this ever unshakable inferiority complex toward the
Westerners. Therefore, they have to find some scapegort to relief their angers. The scapegoat has often been Japan.

=>When we start nit-picking for "proof", or if people start suggesting,"you have no proof that it was 300,000 instead of 30,000" -- then yes, no one can prove the EXACT number. However, the Japanese cannot DISPROVE it either.

There are the proofs with which we can disprove your claims.

First, there is the Documents of the Nanking Safety Zone, which was published in Shanghai by the British company; Kelly & Walsh in 1939.
The documents were recorded under the auspices of the Council of International Affairs of the Nationalist government of Chiang Kai Shiek.
The documents clearly stated that the population prior to the arrival of the Japanese Army was around 200,000. And after the arrival,
it increased to 250,000. You can go to some local library to find the documents.

There are others, like the report by Dr. Lewis Smyth, who resided in Nanking at that time. You can read the free online book in the following link:

http://www.history.gr.jp/~nanking/books_wardamage.html

=>Proof in the form of John Rabe, first-hand accounts from survivors, etc. are, as the Japanese say, "not enough", "unfounded" or "inconsistent".

On December 18, 1937, John Rabe sent the letter to the Imperial Japanese Embassy and asked the help for providing food and security for the 200,000
people in Nanking because it was too much a job for the mere 22 Westerners in the area including Rabe himself.

In the report of the Nanking Safety Zone on January 14, 1937, he stated that the population of Nanking was estimated 250,000 to 300,000.

On the other hand, his so-called diary has has the questionable accounts partly due to the fact Rabe himself and/or other rewrote them.
To make long story short, Rabe eventually became anti-Japan due to Hitler's decision to seek help from Japan to combat Russia.
Rabe had been in charge of supplying weaponry to Chiang Kai Shiek's KMT Army. But because of Hitler's new policy, he began to lose the
lucrative benefits. Thus, he began to make false reports regarding the Japanese Army and its actions in China.

For example, in the report he wrote for Hitler, Rabe explained the number of the so-called Nanking victims was 50,000 to 60,000.

Then, on January 14, 1938, he sent the letter to the German Embassy in Shanghai, in which he stated the victim was several 1,000 people.

And on January 28, he sent the letter to the English Embassy in Nanking, in which he stated the victim was several 100 people.

If you read his so-called diary carefully, there is no single case of murder he directly witnessed recorded. All of the so-called murder was
based on the heresays he heard from other sources.

Now, tell me how could some 300,000 be killed when according to Rabe, there were 200,000 in December 1937? Why can his diary be the proof of the
so-called massacre when Rabe himself provided different numbers to different people: ranging from 100 to 1,000? (3/3-12:43) No.113

i hate japs Name：uncle sam Date：2010/02/14(Sun) 16:06 No.110

bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the greatest decision in history. god only know what would life be now if those animals were not stop. truly, GOD BLESS AMERICA

whitelotus ＞ Do you really think so? If it were not for FDR's decision to start the war in the Pacific, your nation would not have had to lose so many young lives for fighting the Communists. (2/15-09:39) No.111

Let's Be Honest Name：MC Date：2009/10/19(Mon) 17:19 No.89

Let's look at this logically.

Two countries -- China and South Korea, have hundreds of photos, testimonies, witnesses, and accounts of the 'Rape of Nanjing'. Independent accounts from foreigners in China (American, etc.) at the time also verify the acts as true.

Not to mention that many Japanese soldiers have already confessed to the crimes that were committed.

Now we have a group of _Japanese_ people saying it is all false. Now, of course you would say it is false. You are trying to defend your history -- or maybe you've just been brainwashed. That is fine, doesn't affect me at all.

My advice to you is: if you want more people to believe you -- you need to get this "documentary" produced by a third-party, relatively "neutral" country.

Though I doubt you will find anyone stupid enough to do that, since it is pretty obvious to everyone in the world (except the self-delusional Japan...) that the Rape of Nanjing is a true, disturbing part of human history.

So get over it, it's not YOU who raped the women. Stop trying to make up stuff, accept history as history, and get on with your life.

whitelotus ＞ Has any of those so-called "testimonies" ever verified and proven with any first-hand documentation? Those former Japanese "soldiers" were imprisoned in China for years, thus, their accounts too have to be thoroughly examined. (11/4-18:04) No.91
Akira ＞ Who's saying "it's all false"?

Typical Talmudic argumentum ad absurdum. (11/15-13:26) No.95
lena ＞ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhabinod_Pal (12/21-03:11) No.97
jimmy ＞ john rabe diaries... need i say anymore (2/7-16:14) No.105
whitelotus ＞ John Rabe provided different numbers of the so-called Nanking victims to different people. Take a look at the Documents of the Nanking Safety Zone. You don't have to look further. (2/9-09:20) No.108

Sondre/Julia Name：Aki Date：2009/06/14(Sun) 21:07 No.84

Many thanks for your serious and good comments, I once
remeber when I commented in Iris Chang for the book review of The Rape of Nanking, I had so many comments to
againsts to its from Chinese/Korean people.

However, also I had good comments from Americans who read
it, also read in The Chinese in America, those readers presents claims that Iris books are making up the facts,
knowing the chinese people's hardships in that time.

However, important things were that it not has be positive for the future, it says very hard for Chinese
and Korean by knowing their hard histories, but you Chinese and Korean should correct by yourself.

Many thanks again for Sondre/Julia for your posts.

Kind regards, Aki

jimmy ＞ mate your fuckin high.. cant you see the japanese government has brainwashed the majority of Japanese people (2/7-16:16) No.106
whitelotus ＞ Brainwashing was the tool developed by the Communists. Japan has been the nation of the much freer access of information. You cannot say the same for China, from which Google has been considering to withdraw. (2/9-09:18) No.107

long time to debate again Name：Aki Date：2010/01/24(Sun) 02:26 No.103

Dear DCB and tom,

I have been written long message, however, it has gone
away!! so I will try to get it back soon, however,
I woud say both of your comments are so emotional and naive fot the historical facts. I have a lot of justified
evidence for this matter.

In short, Nanjin Massacre was totally faked and not true,
anyway, please do not believe their propaganda by the PRC and Korean.

I just recommend you very good book, American Diplomacy
by George K. Kennan (1951 by the University of Chicago)
, that really depicts the real things for the China with
Japan in that time.

I will follow then, kind regards, Aki

.... Name：DCB Date：2009/10/20(Tue) 08:43 No.90

This film is an April Fool's Joke, right?

whitelotus ＞ It is already in fall of 2009. What the hell are you talking about? (11/4-18:04) No.92
tom ＞ definately a fucking joke.
you japanese crossed the sea to slave Korea and China, which killed millions of people, why we should not explode your fucking ass with atomic bombs? (1/12-23:52) No.100
whitelotus ＞ Japan has no tradition of slavery. If you talking about those comfort women, then they were just paid prostitutes with the different name. The majority of them were actually Japanese anyway. What is the big deal with Korea and China? Afterall, it was the Western powers like Britain and France, which started the whole colonization things. They did lot more killings than Japan ever did. According to your logic, they deserve the atomic bombs as well. (1/14-17:18) No.102

Let's be REAL honest Name：lena Date：2009/12/21(Mon) 03:10 No.96

God bless for brave people who made this movie!
What is the real history.., we should learn again.
Real war crominal is Allies and yes USA, which dropped ATOMIC BOMB.
It is the very worst thing humans can do, it is Evil.
Obama knows that and he already accepted the responsibility.
World will know the truth soon in the name of justice.

tom ＞ you are such a naive babe.

but , yes, you should learn more. (1/12-23:46) No.99

To MC Name：Tokyo bystander Date：2009/11/07(Sat) 20:07 No.94

"China and South Korea, have hundreds of photos, testimonies, witnesses, and accounts of the 'Rape of Nanjing'??

Wonder, what kind of photo can prove that the number was 300,000 instead of 30,000.
Numbers of corpses you can prove by one photo would be around 300 or something, provided that they are all well numbered by white paint or something.
So, to prove the "300,000" corpses, avoiding any mistake of double-counting, at least you need 1,000 methodical and well documented photos. Just few photos, chopping off someone's head are nothing credible to back up the 300,000 numbers.

40,000 killed at Nanking Name：Edward Chen Date：2009/09/27(Sun) 04:02 No.88

Dear Sir,

I happened to buy a film "Why We Fight" produced by US War Department( film was taken around end 1944 or early 1945 before Nazi was defeated, of course Japan was still fighting at that time)

When I saw the chapter about China's Warfare against Japan, I surprised to see that US official side saying that: over 40,000 Chinese were killed at Nanking after it's fall.."

This figure is much less than Chinese claimed 200,000 to 300,000 kiled by Japanese Army.

I feel an obligation to let you know this film( I can send you a copy if you want to see,it's zone 3 DVD)

Very Truely Yours,
Edward

whitelotus ＞ Thanks. I have recently discovered the rare report by Dr. Lewis Smyth, who resided in Nanking at that time. You can read the free online book in the following link:

http://www.history.gr.jp/~nanking/books_wardamage.html (11/4-18:07) No.93

コラ Name：コラ Date：2009/09/01(Tue) 17:34 No.87

コラ
<a href="http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl">ニュース</a>
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl

無題 Name：tomo Date：2009/08/29(Sat) 18:44 No.86

i respect the thought of this movie.
many japanese and the world people are deceived by china.

of course, it does not blame for the chinese people.
it is china that is to be blame.

aiz/tokyo bystander Name：Aki Date：2009/06/14(Sun) 21:27 No.85

Both comments are super to give good answers to
sondre/julia, fen/connels/others emotional and naive
posts are to say shame on you as well.
fen/colonels, Your comments are to bear for your naiveness and lack of knowledge for the historical facts,
I have been hoping that you will read good books/real
reports of diplomats/travellers/historians/braivers/
etc.

Please read in 166 pages report of the Nanking Safety Zone Committe witten by the Chinese in 1937 that is
readable on the internaet.

Kind regards, Aki

fen/connels naiveness Name：Aki Date：2009/06/14(Sun) 20:36 No.83

So sorry and dissapointed for fen/connels/julia who do not know and learn the facts what Nanking issue was made
up by communists and Shiankai Shek/Nationalist Party.

I myself read in 166 pages report of Nanking Safety Zone
Committe of 1937, Rabe and other members were comitted,
that had no records for such massacre, that is all I want
to say, Nanking massacre is totally facked and made up.

Please stop your very emotional and non-evidenced shouting to attack Japan, rather, you should have the
stance and sttitudes to learn the historical facts.

Kind regards, Aki

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